^Thank you for that, Nikki.

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And, pertaining to what Colleen said, if I were raped and I got pregnant and I didn't want to keep the child, I would go through with the pregnancy because there are so many other options than aborting the baby.

but imagine if you found out that you were the product of a rape?
thats unfair. that would cause serious mental damage to almost anyone.

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Originally posted by gabbyyyy<3:

quote:

And, pertaining to what Colleen said, if I were raped and I got pregnant and I didn't want to keep the child, I would go through with the pregnancy because there are so many other options than aborting the baby.

but imagine if you found out that you were the product of a rape?
thats unfair. that would cause serious mental damage to almost anyone.

not just being the product of rape but also the rape itself would have serious psychological damage.

mental health is something that i care about, that is why i study psychology, and i think that it is something that should not be overlooked because of a political or religious issue like this.

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Originally posted by killakayleigh:
there are reasons why abortion isn't murder, according to the law. it's late and i honestly do not feel like researching it tonight, so maybe in the morning. this looks like a cop-out, it isn't.

but i have a question, laura. what are your views on the war? and war in general?

I'm curious what you'll say about that, but yea take your time. I'm doing all this in between classes

My views on war are that it's necessary in certain situations. Killing in war is not murder unless you aren't abiding by the Geneva Convention and killing an unarmed combatant or a civilian. War was necessary to purge evil ie. slavery (even though that took a while, but bear with me), nazism, communism and other ideals that were the cause of futher, unecessary, and unjust suffering in the world. Our soldiers, for example, should not be tried for murder if they kill someone in the war. They are doing their job. When you are in the war situation, politics go right out the window (to quote Eric Bana in BLack Hawk Down). You are thrown in a situation where the only time you should be killing is when you need to defend yourself or your buddy. That's in some situations. We also have co-ops where we specifically target our enemies like Clinton's bombing of Baghdad. Essentially, war is a last resort when to not engage will create further damage to innocent people.

As for abortion, the biggest diffence with that and what I said above is that war is essentially against an evil entity. The "war with abortion" is against an innocent child.

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also, there's a difference between biological life and "human life" as we know it.

Of course, the life of a plant is different than the life of puppy which is different from the life of a human. I'm not sure where you want to go with that so I'll let you continue with you thought if you were intending to add something.

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I will go back to rape for this one:

Say you or someone you know was raped, it was very obvious that you or they were not having sex with the intention to procreate. If she did not want that to happen in the first place, why would she want her body to go through the changes she may not want to have happen. In addition to the bodily changes, the woman is also psychologically scarred for the rest of her life. Why would she want to have the burden of carrying a child while she is dealing with the fact that a guy decided to use sex as a weapon on her? There are cases of rape victims who are treated very badly for the sole reason that they are victims. You are saying that if you have sex, even if it was unwanted, you should keep the baby if you do end up pregnant.

You are a woman yourself, but yet you are willing to send yourself back 200-300 years and subject yourself to things we have been beyond for hundreds of years. Back then, women were essentially tools for making babies and taking care of the house because they had no other options. We have other options nowadays and we as women should consider ourselves lucky.

So, if a guy you do not like gets drunk and rapes you, will you keep the baby?

Oh, and another thing: Why do you think they created the Morning After pill?

To prevent an unwanted pregnancy. That's why.

I feel like I'm repeating myself. I've answered most of the things you ask in past responses, but this is something I haven't added.

You mention that the woman is psycologically scarred because of the rape. Very true. An abortion is not a simple procedure. It's very scary. To put a woman who was raped through an abortion will not help her.

This link explains what I was going to say, I have to run off to class:

http://www.abortionfacts.com/online_books/love_them_bot...ove_them_both_29.asp

where i want to go with it is when does the biological act of cells reproducing become human life? it's certainly not at conception. because it is at that point that i will agree that it would be murder to kill the baby.

"You are thrown in a situation where the only time you should be killing is when you need to defend yourself"
i feel that abortion does fit under this. you're defending your body against something that you don't want to have happen to it.

and you can say that well she shouldn't have been having sex, but honestly that isn't up to you to decide. and to everyone saying 'well if she's a teenager and having a bunch of sex she should have to keep the baby' why are you using a baby as a form of punishment?

also. do you really think an abortion leaves more psychological damage than having a child grow inside you for 9+ months, giving birth to it, holding it for the first time, and then giving it away to someone else and never seeing it again? THAT leaves emotional scars much worse than an abortion does, trust me. i've seen it first hand. i've seen someone cry every single year on a little baby's birthday, bawl her eyes out, because she would never ever get to see the person that's half of her. that affects her scores more than the abortion she had.


(also i just woke up and i'm horribly disgusted by that and haven't researched anything yet)

quote:

Originally posted by killakayleigh:
where i want to go with it is when does the biological act of cells reproducing become human life? it's certainly not at conception. because it is at that point that i will agree that it would be murder to kill the baby.

"You are thrown in a situation where the only time you should be killing is when you need to defend yourself"
i feel that abortion does fit under this. you're defending your body against something that you don't want to have happen to it.

and you can say that well she shouldn't have been having sex, but honestly that isn't up to you to decide. and to everyone saying 'well if she's a teenager and having a bunch of sex she should have to keep the baby' why are you using a baby as a form of punishment?

also. do you really think an abortion leaves more psychological damage than having a child grow inside you for 9+ months, giving birth to it, holding it for the first time, and then giving it away to someone else and never seeing it again? THAT leaves emotional scars much worse than an abortion does, trust me. i've seen it first hand. i've seen someone cry every single year on a little baby's birthday, bawl her eyes out, because she would never ever get to see the person that's half of her. that affects her scores more than the abortion she had.


(also i just woke up and i'm horribly disgusted by that and haven't researched anything yet)

But what I don't understand is if life doesn't begin at conception, then when does it? Everything necessary for those two cells to become what you and I are today are in those two cells. No extreme change of species takes place from conception till birth. In fact, there is no change of species..at all. So must mean those two cells are human from the second they meet. Gah I don't think I"m explaining this well.

Defending your body against what? This baby isn't physically harming you. Any mental harm comes from you, not from the baby. If that was the case, than every woman would be mentally "harmed" when they become pregnant. I don't think you can fit abortion in this context because I'm referring to a clear and present danger.

I know it's not up to me to decide if she should or shouldn't be having sex, but take responsibility for your actions if that's the case. You made a mistake and you're punishing the only person who had no say in the matter and couldn't do anything about it.

I disagree, but I guess that's different with every person. I have a friend who got an abortion and can never look at a baby the same because she learned the wrong in abortion later on. All she can think of is that she killed her own baby. When she sees a kid around the same age her baby would have been, she always thinks "what if this...what if that." I would personally rather live with the fact that my baby is alive and pray for his/her best than to think it didn't have a chance to live. I can only speak for myself, but knowing your baby is alive is better than knowing your child had to be sucked out of you piece by piece. I could [u]never[/u] live with that.

Laura, your friend who had the abortion, how far along was she when she had it?

Laura, now you're talking about how YOU could never live with it, etc. But before, your argument was that flat out, it's wrong. Why even bring that aspect of your opinion in it if you're not even going to acknowledge the legitimacy of our opinions (that they have the choice to do it, it's their body. And not all women are going to go through the exact same thing as your friend either)? We've all already agreed with you that it's wrong. And I don't see how you can possibly think that in no way are we right in what we've ALL been saying.

You keep saying how YOU would feel a situation and all, but you don't seem to be taking into account that not everyone feels the same way in situations as you. Some women would be able to cope with an abortion easier than an adoption, and some vise versa, and that's just a fact.

I don't know if any of that even made sense, but I have a question. What is it that makes you think that you have any right to decide for any other woman what she should and shouldn't be allowed to do with her body, or something her body partially created and will have to take care of throughout the pregnancy, regardless of whether or not she keeps it or gives it up for adoption? And I mean this all abortion facts set aside. Even if it is 'murder' in your opinion, why is it okay for anyone to tell anyone else what to do in a situation that doesn't involve any other currently living walking breathing human being.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: kait.,