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Originally posted by kait.:

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But listen to what you're saying. You're condoning murder to make other people's lives easier/happier. Who told you you could do that? And yes, if the woman was stupid eough to let herself get pregnant, then she should pay for the consequences, not the baby. Why make the baby pay for the mistakes of the mother? How is that just?

Exactly, the baby shouldn't pay for the mother's mistakes, but regardless of what you do, it's going to. Either it's going to be aborted, or it's going to live a more difficult life than if it were a planned baby, or it's going to have to live knowing it was adopted. All of which are forms of paying for the mishap.


"Yea, maybe not everyone will be happy but it's the right thing to do. I don't think killing someone to make them happy is the right thing to do, even though the mother thinks she'll be happy afterward."

You saying it's the right thing to do is your opinion. If it were a fact, there wouldn't be conversations and debates about this subject. And you keep using 'kill' and 'murder' when I fully believe it's neither of those. The way I see killing/murdering, the person would have to have a past of some sort to 'miss' for it to be considered that. This baby has nothing to remember. It's taking it's chance at a life away, yeah, but it's not like cutting it short because it hasn't even began yet.

And I never said anything about making people happy. It's not JUST based on making people happy, or anyone happy for that matter. Having a baby can cause a lot of problems when it's unexpected. A woman being forced to go through with a pregnancy can potentially cause her to lose her job, depending on what it is. What kind of life is not only the baby going to have, but the mother, if that happens? There are always different situations, and in some I think getting an abortion is justified, and in others I don't. But once again, that is not up to me.

"But smoking doesn't always kill. Abortion does. You can't ban something like smoking when people have been smoking for thousands of years yet haven't died from it. "

I'm pretty confident that people have been doing abortions illegally for a really long time, as well. Whether it be because they can't afford an abortion, or because they don't want anyone to find out that they were ever pregnant. And guess what? That does harm people. Not only does it harm the baby, but it harms the mother almost always. Would you rather everyone revert back to that than get it done professionally, and sanitarily? Because no matter what laws are passed, it's still going to happen. It's just a matter of how.

In fact, that's the one question I want to let you know I want answered so you don't miss it or something. And just to make sure I'm fully clear as possible, here it is again:

Would you rather EVERYONE revert back to illegal abortions than get it done professionally and sanitarily? Because no mater what laws are passed, it's still going to happen. It's just a matter of how.

And Meg, I don't know why you're posting that. It's all points we've all made numerous times already. You saying it isn't going to make it get through to Laura any more.

Oh so let's kill a baby because he MIGHT have a hard life? Come on!

I don't understand how you can classify life with having a memory of something. What about my aunt with alzheimers? People with amnesia? Don't you see how ridiculous that argument is? Life begins at the beginning. The baby doesn't "begin" when they can be missed o have some sort of past. How the heck does that make any sense? So because the baby has nothing to remember, then we can go ahead and kill it? Let's go kill everyone with alzheimers because they won't remember anything. And how can you say the life hasn't begun yet? That baby has been growing and thriving inside a mother's womb for however many months. Don't you think that sounds the least bit heartless? That's all abortion is!

How can you say abortion isn't justified in some reasons but not in others? It's the same act on an innocent child. It's not like killing is different for self defense or in war. Either way you look at it, you will still be killing an innocent baby, whether it's because you were traumatized from rape or because you were stupid one night. It's the same thing. How can it be ok if the same wrong is being done in every case?

About the back alley abortions, just read this. It will answer everything.

http://www.abortionfacts.com/online_books/love_them_bot...ove_them_both_27.asp

And to answer your question, regardless of the fact that women would be stupid enough to have a back alley abortion, it does not justify the legality of abortion. It doesn't. Threatening the illegalization of abortion ih back alley abortions is just that; a threat. I don't think women will revert to them though. If women knew abortions were ilegal, I'm pretty sure many would be more careful. Now that's just me speculating. But a lot of abortions happen because women know it's there. Maybe by making abortion illegal, women will know that they will have to be more careful and we can then lower the pregnancy rates. Once again, me speculating. But I don't think there's a single thing that can make abortion legitimate.

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but the thing is, the government gives us our rights. they allow us to have certain rights, so if they don't recognize them, then they don't exist.

and if you meant the baby has rights as in our God-given birth rights, well the baby isn't born yet.

Which is why I'm fighting for the government to recognize those rights. How can you say that people have the right to life if they're around for only 3 of those gestational months? If people have the right to live, then that should mean that they have the right to live without someone else standing in the way of their living.



Can I jsut ask that you please read these abortion survival stories?

http://www.abortionfacts.com/survivors/amy.asp

http://www.abortionfacts.com/survivors/giannajessen.asp

I mean this without any condescending tone, but I genuinely don't understand how you all, possble future mothers, aren't fighting for the lives of innocent children. As a mother, isn't your fundamental job to protect your family? To be a loving, nurturing figure to your children? The media has completely taken over fundamental ideas that shouldn't even be questions. De-sensitizing the act with the arguments you all continue to make. I just don't understand how we can allow ourselves to kill innocent babies a similar way Hitler destroyed Jews and Christians. Babies with the intent to live a long life and do something with it. Those little bundles that you coo oer. Who the heck do you think you are to take that away from somebody? Why would you want to have that memory in your mind that you killed your only baby? When people finally see the light and understand what the did, it destroys them. But by feeding this garbage that women can decide to kill their own babies, we desensitive what really happens. Why do you think I refer to the baby as a baby and not a fetus? Because by saying fetus, it doesn't make it anything special, just a "bundle of cells." But no, it's not just that. I've shown you all that every aborted baby is human in every way, whether or not you acknowledge that is up to you. I've done my part. But I genuinely hope that one day, you all sit bak and realize what actually happens in an abortion and how it doesn't help the mother or the child, in any way. One day, everyone will understand. That I'm sure. And I have complete confidence that I am right, I don't care if saying that makes me arrogant. You can't read stories of those that survived abortions and not think that abortions are the most despicable of acts.

I have said my part, and I have repeated myself countless times. There is nothing more I can say and if you don't want to believe me, fine, that is your right. But to carry on in here is just a waste of our time.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ~Laura~,

a twelve year that has just hit puberty gets raped and ends up pregnant. her body is too small and underdeveloped to safely go through the pregnancy and give birth to a healthy child. there are many risks involved that threaten the 12 year old's life.

you're saying no matter what, abortion is never an option?

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Originally posted by killakayleigh:
a twelve year that has just hit puberty gets raped and ends up pregnant. her body is too small and underdeveloped to safely go through the pregnancy and give birth to a healthy child. there are many risks involved that threaten the 12 year old's life.

you're saying no matter what, abortion is never an option?

Kill one life to save another? How does that make sense?

The chances of her actually getting pregnant are slim to none. I'm finding stats that say from less than 4% to less than 1% of the time. The answer to the violent act of rape is not by the equally violent act of abortion.

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About the back alley abortions, just read this. It will answer everything.

http://www.abortionfacts.com/online_books/love_them_bot...ove_them_both_27.asp

And to answer your question, regardless of the fact that women would be stupid enough to have a back alley abortion, it does not justify the legality of abortion. It doesn't. Threatening the illegalization of abortion ih back alley abortions is just that; a threat. I don't think women will revert to them though. If women knew abortions were ilegal, I'm pretty sure many would be more careful. Now that's just me speculating. But a lot of abortions happen because women know it's there. Maybe by making abortion illegal, women will know that they will have to be more careful and we can then lower the pregnancy rates. Once again, me speculating. But I don't think there's a single thing that can make abortion legitimate.

Just because you won't hear about it all that often doesn't mean that it won't happen. And either way, it's going to happen more than it does now because no matter how careful you are, there's always a chance of getting pregnant if you're having sex, and without abortion being legal people WILL resort to illegal ones if necessary. Sure, a few would be more careful to not get pregnant... but in the end, more people will still end up harmed/dead. Is that better than having it be done professionally?

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Originally posted by ~Laura~:

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Originally posted by killakayleigh:
a twelve year that has just hit puberty gets raped and ends up pregnant. her body is too small and underdeveloped to safely go through the pregnancy and give birth to a healthy child. there are many risks involved that threaten the 12 year old's life.

you're saying no matter what, abortion is never an option?

Kill one life to save another? How does that make sense?

The chances of her actually getting pregnant are slim to none. I'm finding stats that say from less than 4% to less than 1% of the time. The answer to the violent act of rape is not by the equally violent act of abortion.

Just because it's not likely doesn't mean it won't happen. I can't speak for Kayleigh of course, but pretend it did happen. There actually is a 12 year old girl pregnant by rape who is not developed enough to carry a baby full term, etc. Because in that case, not only would the girl be in harm's way, but the baby wouldn't be developed properly and fully, either.

And you say "Kill one life to save another," so are you saying it would be better to let the baby continue to grow, probably not completely properly, and then let the 12 year old have it... and probably ALSO get fucked up from it? That's harming both people.

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Originally posted by ~Laura~:

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Originally posted by killakayleigh:
a twelve year that has just hit puberty gets raped and ends up pregnant. her body is too small and underdeveloped to safely go through the pregnancy and give birth to a healthy child. there are many risks involved that threaten the 12 year old's life.

you're saying no matter what, abortion is never an option?

Kill one life to save another? How does that make sense?

The chances of her actually getting pregnant are slim to none. I'm finding stats that say from less than 4% to less than 1% of the time. The answer to the violent act of rape is not by the equally violent act of abortion.

so you're saying, instead of killing the fetus, you should force the girl to give birth? and since this is my scenario i make up the rules (this is actually a scenario that my ethics professor gave us once). so as slim a chance as it may be, it happens. and she dies in childbirth, but the child is relatively okay.

in that way, is it okay to kill one life to save another?

hey laura, did you bring up the fact that babies have finger nails?



lol i just wanted to make a juno reference. you all may now continue on with your serious conversation. i love reading all of this. legit.